Comments on Casaubon's Book: Talking Population With the Old Men

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I think it is already too late.I could be wrong, b...

2008-07-11T19:49:00.000-07:00

I think it is already too late.

I could be wrong, but I do not expect world population to grow much past what it is now, no matter how large a fraction of the world is in prime childbearing age.

Food and energy are everything.

I expect things to be very different from what we are used to. I think we are going to do none of the good things you talk about, in fact I think we won't talk about it much at all. Some places may, it won't do much good.

But the population will reduce. I think anyway. And I'm sure we all have our private speculations as to how it will occur.

actually, that's brilliant. Thank you. I'm going t...

2007-10-31T12:09:00.000-07:00

actually, that's brilliant. Thank you. I'm going to pass that on to a couple of people.

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2007-10-31T11:40:00.000-07:00

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2007-10-26T02:43:00.000-07:00

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Ok, that URL again....http://tinyurl.com/yr554g

2007-07-25T09:31:00.000-07:00

Ok, that URL again....

http://tinyurl.com/yr554g

Here's a very good video explaining where money co...

2007-07-25T09:27:00.000-07:00

Here's a very good video explaining where money comes from and why perpetual growth is essential to our local and global economies.

Without permanent energy consumption growth, our economies will self destruct.

As long as we continue to require infinite growth, we cannot adequately prepare for a time of zero or negative growth. This is because we continually have to consume energy and resources at increasing rates, to stand still.

Though there are a few examples of nations with declining populations, they are not the norm. Even nations in which the established citizenry is set to decline in population, immigration whether legal or illegal, is still wide open. so these nations are still increasing their populations.

I believe that a sustainable path is possible, but it doesn't include infinite population growth and it requires sacrifices from all of us. Because of this, the folks with the most power, have the most to lose and they will fight against sustainability.

On the whole I expect small groups to make great strides, but populations as a whole to sleep walk into disaster.

Until the whole system collapses, we don't have the option of copping completely out of the current system.

Keep up with learning new skills and doing the hobby farm stuff. It helps. I believe in it myself, and have been on the same path for years. It makes good sense from an individual and family perspective.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9050474362583451279&hl=en

A few points:1) It's mostly women who have to gain...

2007-07-23T21:59:00.000-07:00

A few points:

1) It's mostly women who have to gain from reducing birthrates, so I don't see your "old men" motif.

Usually, old men are complaining that women aren't having enough children. Just listen to the governments of Japan, Russia, Germany, HongKong, Singapore. etc. complaining about their reluctant womenfolk.

2) Let's stop pandering to the fearmongers who jump to sound the alarm about someone using coercion to get lower birthrates everytime you mention the very world "population" -- China is the ONLY example of this in all of human history. (Other than a few episodes in India 35 years ago.) Meanwhile, in almost every nation where contraception was simply made available, birth rates have dropped dramatically without any coercion or pressure at all.

Simply because, if given the choice, most people will prefer to have fewer children than the 8 to 15 nature would foist upon us.

3) As far as examples of populations which have voluntarily and spontaneously reduced population growth over a long period: EVERY SINGLE DEVELOPED COUNTRY.

A few are now spontaneously entering or will soon enter the realm of declining population, too: Most of Europe, most of the Former Soviet Bloc, Japan, HongKong, South Korea, even China.

Why are people having trouble finding examples?

Every country which has become wealthy, except maybe Saudi Arabia, has first reduced their birth rate. Most civilized countries will soon have declining populations, despite the fact the lag between a drop of the birth rate under replacement and actually declining populations is about 50 years.

4) Be sure to consider the documented effect that high birth rates and the consequent "youth bulge" have on frequency of wars, civil unrest and violence. (Google Gunnar Heinsohn) It is large numbers of uneducated, unemployed young men which cause war; war ends development and leads to poverty and misery.

This is probably why all peoples who have become rich have first cut birthrates -- that is necessary to escape from the trap of violence and war which a too-young population will fall into, destroying everything in their paths. Out of simple stupidity.

It's not just for our sake that we should wish population growth in poor countries would decline -- it is a precondition of their getting out of the trap of poverty.

Jan VanDenBerg

Yooper, we didn't have running water here for some...

2007-07-23T10:43:00.000-07:00

Yooper, we didn't have running water here for some time after we first moved in. So yes, I've taken many a bath and shower with rainwater. What's the big deal? It is *great* for your hair. Pump or pour out water, fill bath or solar shower bag, add heated water... tah dah.

And no, no one gets to see but my husband ;-).

Sharon

Yooper, I'll gladly respond to your questions, but...

2007-07-23T10:20:00.000-07:00

Yooper, I'll gladly respond to your questions, but I don't read the LATOC forums, and I don't have time to hunt up a particular response. If you want to post specific comments or questions here, I'll respond to them here.

As for "I can't possibly mean organic" - I certainly don't mean industrial organic, but small scale, polyculture organic, yes - there's ample scientific evidence that we can not only match but improve on present yields. It requires a lot more people involved, but that, I think is achievable.

Sharon

Hey weaseldog, I won't give up on ya! I agree with...

2007-07-22T20:58:00.000-07:00

Hey weaseldog, I won't give up on ya! I agree with what you're conveying here, absolutely. I'm, "the Black Knight" over at lacto. Check out the converstion, I'm having there...I'm also very interested in John Greer's, "Archdruid Report". Sharon, knows all about this, she's been there.......... Check it out.

Sincerely, yooper.

Sharon, ha! ha! I'd like to see you take a bath or...

2007-07-22T20:19:00.000-07:00

Sharon, ha! ha! I'd like to see you take a bath or shower in that rain water you're suggesting! ha! ha! Come on!!! You've got to be kidding?!!!

Thanks again, yooper.

Hello Sharon!"Talking population with the Old Men"...

2007-07-22T20:10:00.000-07:00

Hello Sharon!
"Talking population with the Old Men", eh?

I suspect, I'm agreeing with alot of what weaseldog is relating to you here...

Please explain to me how we can feed, 300 million in this country in ways you and Heinberg, might suggest, without the power of fossil fuel? You cannot possibly be thinking organic?

Perhaps answers some of my questions, on a post that I replied to from a link from l.a.t.o.c., concerning, "It Is'nt Gridcrash That Makes The Lights Go Out". Answer, these questions, if you will please?

Thanks, yooper.

Thought-provoking post and discussion in comments....

2007-07-21T16:28:00.000-07:00

Thought-provoking post and discussion in comments. I do find it interesting that there was no mention (that I saw) of impacts on other species inhabiting this planet other than plants and animals grown for human food. Just an observation.