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Gardens on the hills escape both floods and frosts, and the lea side of hills don't suffer the hail as bad. So the answer must be local in view of declining oil stocks, it also must be widespread and not concentrated on big farms. Many smaller farms instead of the few larger farms. <BR/><BR/>Also when hail hit us this year it wiped out the tomatoes but the potatoes were fine after a while - so a large variety of crops also must figure into the equation.<BR/><BR/>More disturbingly to many (including my cynical old self) is the role of nature spirits. I've just re-read some old Findhorn material that I basically rejected thirty years ago, but now with trees flowering in fall and even winter, the predictions of nature spirits withdrawing their support from the human race does not seem all that far fetched. This along with the eye witness accounts of the then experts in organic agriculture that opined the results from the Findhorn gardens were too good for for any known system, especially as many of the species planted should not have grown at such high latitudes in Scotland!!<BR/><BR/>I would urge all thinking people to find as much old Finhorn material as possible - perhaps a renewal of belief in spirits and elementals will be the only thing that saves us!!<BR/><BR/>SololeumAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8221748.post-8134125803164199252007-04-17T21:41:00.000-07:002007-04-17T21:41:00.000-07:00There seems to be a trend for very polarised think...There seems to be a trend for very polarised thinking here. Either centralised and widely distributed intensive agriculture or low energy self sufficiency.<BR/><BR/>The reality is probably going to be a combination of the two in the absence of a total system collapse. Intensive agriculture does a few things very well, such as growing and distributing bulk grains to stop people from outright starving, and they could continue to do so even with greatly increased oil prices, probably leading to less bullk grain going into meat production. But grains alone make a pretty meagre diet.<BR/><BR/>This is where self sufficiency already wins out in terms of rounding out a diet and providing a better source of food stuffs that are difficult to store and transport and/or labor intensive to harvest. This mainly means tender green vegetable and soft fruits, but as the situation progresses relocalisation of dairy, meat and other vegetables also starts becoming competitive. <BR/><BR/>Already small local markets with very competitive prices are springing up around here in Australia that allow producers to directly sell their produce, cutting out the supermarkets which require bottom of the barrel wholesale prices, then add exhorbitant mark ups after thrashing the produce all over the country. I now spend more than half of my grocery bills outside the big supermarkets and I am eating better than ever!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8221748.post-13358237686920481412007-04-17T13:24:00.000-07:002007-04-17T13:24:00.000-07:00Hi Rebecca - I really hope I didn't give the impre...Hi Rebecca - I really hope I didn't give the impression that you were suggesting we do economic harm to others - I want to reiterate that I know you'd never suggest any such thing, and if there's an implied link, that's my error.<BR/><BR/>Some stored foods decline in flavor - a surprising number of older vegetables bred for storage actually *improve* in flavor after a while. For example, I find that Red Winesap apples aren't that wonderful until they've stored a couple of months, and that's true of some potatoes. It really requires some experimentation.<BR/><BR/>That reminds me, I should make applesauce with the last of the Mutsus and Winesaps, since spring fruit will be along soon.<BR/><BR/>Sharonjewishfarmerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17547121621115074866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8221748.post-6260640309586329582007-04-17T11:27:00.000-07:002007-04-17T11:27:00.000-07:00bland for several reasons. also, most are harvest...bland for several reasons. also, most are harvested early, ripe fruit rots and bruiss in transport. secondly as well, crops growns on fertilizers dont devlop to full nutrition/ flavor because their growth essntially outstrips their own intenal development. this is one reason organics taste btter, they grow more slowly.riverbirdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16512672669673856369noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8221748.post-53679816274963272752007-04-16T20:53:00.000-07:002007-04-16T20:53:00.000-07:00Here's a link about storage times, by the way. Sto...Here's a <A HREF="http://observer.guardian.co.uk/foodmonthly/story/0,,995340,00.html" REL="nofollow">link</A> about storage times, by the way. Storage times are "typical", only - it's soemtimes up to twice this, most commonly half this. <BR/><BR/>Apples: 6-12 months<BR/>Lettuce: 1-4 weeks<BR/>Bananas: 14 days<BR/>Tomatoes: 1-6 weeks<BR/>Potato: 2-12 months<BR/>Carrot: 1-9 months<BR/><BR/>I would add that in principle, there's nothing wrong with storing food. But it does decline in nutritional value and taste over that storage time. So you have to eat more for the same nutritional effect, and perhaps use lots of herbs and spices to flavour it up.<BR/><BR/>On the whole, I'd prefer seasonal fruits and vegies picked genuinely fresh I can, though...Hanley Tuckshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13047638048463160737noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8221748.post-41801581318415427732007-04-16T20:43:00.000-07:002007-04-16T20:43:00.000-07:00The fruit from distant places tastes bland not bec...The fruit from distant places tastes bland not because of the original quality of it but because it's stored for a long time.<BR/><BR/>Because we expect to see each fruit or vegetable year-round, at a low price, the food companies buy it up when it's cheap, and store it in large refrigerated warehouses. Some apples you eat will have been stored for up to 18 months.<BR/><BR/>That's why they taste bland. They'd taste good fresh off a tree in Palma ;)Hanley Tuckshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13047638048463160737noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8221748.post-76479129010013320882007-04-16T06:19:00.000-07:002007-04-16T06:19:00.000-07:00Thanks Sharon. No, I certainly wasn't suggesting t...Thanks Sharon. No, I certainly wasn't suggesting that we should make others hungry in order to avoid going hungry ourselves. (Though that is, in effect, what the current system often does.) The very idea is repulsive and despicable. <BR/><BR/>I was just looking for a way to address the issue with hedges, which you have so kindly provided. <BR/>I think part of the problem is that we have been so spoiled for so long (sorry for the strong words, but its the truth) that people are afraid of ANY sort of change that would make their existence seem more precarious.<BR/><BR/>I live in Northern Alabama, btw.<BR/>Thanks again!<BR/>-RebeccaRAShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16264114986793504233noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8221748.post-25378111051994477222007-04-16T05:02:00.000-07:002007-04-16T05:02:00.000-07:00Has anyone actually looked at the "country of orig...Has anyone actually looked at the "country of origin" tag when they buy their fruit? I have. And all I have to say is that cental and south american fruit (outside of bananas) tastes like cardboard. It actually makes it a pleasure to wait for my own watermelons to be ready for harvest, even if we only get one.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8221748.post-64527077401818591282007-04-15T19:24:00.000-07:002007-04-15T19:24:00.000-07:00"So along with relocalizing our gardens, we need l...<I>"So along with relocalizing our gardens, we need local food security programs."</I><BR/><BR/>What followed from that was quite interesting. I've had similar sorts of ideas, especially after reading Geoff Davies' <A HREF="http://www.geoffdavies.com/Economia.html" REL="nofollow">Economia</A>, where he discusses our current money system, and some alternatives.<BR/><BR/>One of the problems which comes up with any currency is people's perception of value of it - "Can I spend it to get what I want? Does it have intrinsic value?" This is the issue which has made it difficult for the various local currency systems to take off, and also that which leads survivalists to stockpile gold coins. <BR/><BR/>One solution is a commodity-backed dereciatory currency. The ancient Egyptians used to have big grain stores, and the farmers would deposit grain there, and receive a token for it, with a date on it. They could turn in this token and get their grain back later. So the token acted as currency, you could hand it over in exchange for things other than grain - people accepted it, because they knew it represented something useful. <BR/><BR/>Because of rats and so on, the grain dropped in amount over time while stored, so the tokens did, too. Egyptian authorities determined the average rate at which the grain decayed, and that was the rate at which the tokens dropped in value. So for example if after three months your 100lbs of grain was now 95lbs of grain and 5lbs of rotted grain and rat poo, well then the token would depreciate by 5% every three months.<BR/><BR/>It might be thought that people wouldn't accept a depreciating money supply, wouldn't take something that drops in value, but in fact we already do this - it's called a "loan" or a "credit card." We spend $100 today and must ay $105 (or more) tomorrow. The difference is that with the Egyptian tokens, you could spend them straight away and avoid the drop in value.<BR/><BR/>And this was the effect - people would try to spend the tokens as quickly as possible, to turn them into things which didn't drop in value. This stimulated the economy generally.<BR/><BR/>The Egyptian authorities also taxed and so on as usual, but what they could have done is to find the rate of grain decay, and (say) double it. So if the grain decayed at 5lbs in every 100lbs every three months, they could have the tokens drop in value by 8lbs every three months; the 3lbs difference could be tokens issued by the stores to cover payment for public works. <BR/><BR/>We do something similar with local currencies and food stores today. eople would have a food bank, get receipts from it, and those receipts would act as currency. The currency would drop in value to reflect the decay of food in storage, plus an extra drop - and that extra would be currency issued to pay for public works. <BR/><BR/>So a surplus of food would be stored in times of plenty, and in rough times, people would buy the food back with their currency. Of course it'd be a problem if we had several bad years, but that's always a problem, and is what we have countries for, rather than just small towns. It'd also stimulate the local economy - if the money drops in value over months, people will spend it rather than hoarding it, and try to turn it into things of lasting value, like land or clothing. <BR/><BR/>Just a thought... of a good place to go, with no idea how we'd get there. People are very accustomed to doing things the current way.Hanley Tuckshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13047638048463160737noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8221748.post-40285789382776338082007-04-15T10:54:00.000-07:002007-04-15T10:54:00.000-07:00I have been thinking about just this for awhile no...I have been thinking about just this for awhile now; we are buried in snow at present with lots more on the way and no way to consider planting for a while now. Last year was so wet that many of us lost a good deal of what we planted, grain was contaminated by fungus, hay couldn't be cut as the fields were too wet and on and on. And then there was the freeze in CA, FL and down south just last week, and I belive corn got frosted in the midwest. Which has me wondering(besides the obvious of just what is going on and how bad is it going to get?); where does this leave us in terms of relocalization/peak oil issues and trying to rely more on local foods? I don't know if the community kitchen/storage is the way or not-is an interesting idea- probably there will need to be many different solutions. I do think we need to talk about it though...<BR/><BR/>ANIAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com